Why am I sharing this old Geekerati Interview?
I was reading Tim Brannan’s excellent article “In Search of…TSR’s R.I.P.” earlier today and was reminded of this podcast interview that I did eleven years ago. Tim’s a game designer and blogger who shares a lot of my interests and his blog is on my regular to read list. In fact, I actually have about 5 tabs opened to various posts he’s written as a plan a couple of future Geekerati articles using his posts as a baseline.
In discussing R.I.P, Brannan gives pretty decent biographies for the people involved, but I think this particular podcast will help round out some of the areas he might have missed. This is particularly the case with Flint Dille’s biography, whose credits extend far beyond gaming and into animation. According to Ben Rigg’s, author of Slaying the Dragon: A Secret History of Dungeons & Dragons, Dille was one of the major driving forces behind the move by TSR to enter the comics field even as it conflicted with their contract with DC Comics. Dille believed, and to be fair I think might have a point, that TSR’s Comic Modules which combined story and game would be allowed. If you want more on that though, you’ll have to read Ben’s excellent book.
Needless to say, these Comic Modules play a big part in Brannan’s attempt to unravel the mystery of what the R.I.P. Role Playing Game might have looked like if it had been fully developed. We will never know for sure, but I think I’d pay to see what Brannan could come up with as a design based on the Comic Modules and his own design thoughts.
The interview I’m sharing is with Flint Dille and David Marconi who were the co-authors of the Agent 13 novels that Brannan mentions in the R.I.P. article. I like them more than Brannan, probably because I’m a huge Spider: Master of Men fan and they tonally scratch that itch. I’m fairly proud of the interview, except on one grounds. I talk with Flint Dille a lot and thought of him as the “big get.” I overlooked that the David Marconi I was talking to was THE David Marconi, the screenwriter of the Will Smith film Enemy of the State. He and Dille had both worked on the old G.I. Joe cartoon and that’s likely where they built their long time friendship. Long enough that they were doing a podcast interview over 20 years after the initial publication of the Agent 13 books.
What’s in the Interview?
Back in 2013, my good friend and former Geekerati Co-host, Bill Cunningham published Flint Dille and David Marconi’s Agent 13 novels through his Pulp 2.0 publishing house. The novels were originally published by TSR in the 1980s when the gaming company was experimenting with non-D&D fiction. It was an era that included a number of interesting novels ranging from humorous science fiction to pulp espionage.
The Agent 13 character was not only featured in the trilogy of novels written by Flint Dille and Dave Marconi, but was also included in a set of Comic Modules and in an excellent Top Secret S.I. setting/supplement written by Ray Winninger.
When Bill told me that he would be publishing the original novels, I was extremely excited. I have been a fan of the Agent 13 character for some time and the Agent 13 Sourcebook is one of my prized gaming possessions. Bill was kind enough to schedule a podcast interview for the Geekerati show with Flint Dille and David Marconi.
Bill wasn’t able to be there for the interview, but I think Shawna and I managed to have an interesting discussion with the two creators.
During the interview, Flint Dille discusses the failure of TSR’s old Comic Modules in the interview. The Comic Modules were an interesting concept where TSR tried to work around their contract with DC, which prevented them from publishing their own comics, by producing comics that were also board games. The concept was a short lived experiment that produced a number of interesting titles, but the requirement of cutting up your comic books to play the games didn’t quite connect with audiences.
Dille does defend his sister Lorraine Williams’ in how she pushed TSR into new media.
Speaking of Lorraine Williams, she gets a lot of flak for pushing for a Buck Rogers role playing game, but I couldn’t help but defend Mike Pondsmith’s work on Buck Rogers XXVc. While I think Williams had some significant flaws as a game company manager, especially with how she and the company treated the publishing arm, I am firmly of the belief that most criticism of her has been amplified via the rumor mill. I highly recommend reading Ben Riggs’ Slaying the Dragon on the topic. Ben approaches the question of TSR’s failure with the critical eye of a journalist and presents a balanced and fact based account.
We also spend a couple of minutes talking about Sagard the Barbarian and the D&D cartoon.
That’s just the Flint Dille portions. David Marconi discusses how one of his scripts became the basis for a Die Hard film and gives some insight into his creative process. Since the interview, David has had three films produced including the excellent Jackie Chan film The Foreigner.
During the interview both Flint and David discuss the potential of an Agent 13 movie featuring Charlise Theron. Sadly, that film stalled in development hell, but there is always hope.
You can read the full press release of the original release below (I don't normally cut and paste press releases, but Bill covers all the bases).
Pulp Publisher to Collect the AGENT 13 Novels by Flint Dille and David Marconi
Los Angeles, CA - Pulp 2.0 Press CEO Bill Cunningham today announced that the company has signed an agreement to redesign and republish the adventures of the classic pulp character, Agent 13, created and written by Flint Dille (Transformers G1) and David Marconi (Enemy of the State). This Pulp 2.0 collector’ edition titled The Agent 13 Dossier will be exclusively in print, and will collect all three of the original Agent 13 novels as well as exclusive features disclosing the secrets behind the mysterious Midnight Avenger.
Agent 13 was originally published in 1986 by TSR in a trilogy of novels - The Invisible Empire, The Serpentine Assassin and Acolytes of Darkness. The character spawned a set of graphic novels drawn by artist Dan Spiegle (with covers by Jeff Butler) as well as a role-playing game and comic. Kidnapped as a young child in 1907, a gifted boy was brought to The Shrine, the hidden headquarters of the ancient organization known as The Brotherhood. His past memories were erased, he was assigned the title Agent 13 and trained as an assassin and agent in clandestine operations. He became the best disciple and would have risen high in the ranks of the Brotherhood, until he discovered its true evil nature under its cadaverous leader, Itsu - The Hand Sinister. Fleeing The Brotherhood he is hunted by their ninja-like agents, and begins a deadly cat-and-mouse contest against the organization. He fights back, forming his own group of allies against the Brotherhood who dare to plunge the world toward war.
“Agent 13 is Dille and Marconi’s love letter to the pulps, cliffhanger serials and comics. We at Pulp 2.0 are ecstatic to present our readers with these great pulp adventures in an exclusive collector’s print edition,” said Pulp 2.0 CEO Bill Cunningham. “I remember reading... okay devouring these books when they first came out, and I’ve always loved the world and characters that Flint and David created. To be able to design a new edition to share these rare novels and the secrets behind Agent 13 is an honor.”
“We were sitting in Flint’s living room one day, and we started jamming ideas back and forth. Flint was a big fan of the pulps and he showed me some of the old materials he had. He had a book featuring the old pulp covers that we looked at that was very inspiring. I had just written some screenplays for Warner Brothers and had good relationships there, and said that if we came up with an interesting story/pitch about this stuff, we can possibly set it up as a screenplay to write.’ So we originally developed AGENT 13 as a studio pitch to set up as a film, and spent quite a lot of time developing the story and characters as we pitched it around to the various producer/buyers around town,” said co-creator David Marconi.
“Then, when the movie wasn’t getting set up as quickly as we hoped, but the story had progressed to the level where we had all the characters and everything else worked out, we decided to just write the book. Flint had access to Random House through Gary Gygax and TSR, so we were able to get a publishing deal, and dove straight into Agent 13 novel world. Which at the end of the day, was more fun in that it allowed us to go much deeper into the characters and backstory which can’t be explored in great detail in a 2 hour script format.”
More details will be forthcoming as the project progresses. The Agent 13 contract was negotiated on behalf of the creators by Howard Bliss of Union Entertainment.
About Flint Dille:
Flint Dille is a living embodiment of Transmedia. His career started by turning toys into TV Shows with G1 Transformers, G.I. Joe, Inhumanoids and Visionaries. He has designed games with Gary Gygax and written movies for Steven Spielberg. Flint has sold game design documents as feature films - Venom (Dimension 2006) and Agent In Place (Lionsgate 2010). Flint directed the interactive movie Terror T.R.A.X., Track of the Vampyre which became a television pilot for Fox as well as Dragonstrike, one of the first hybrid film projects.
Flint has twice won 'Game Script of the Year' (Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay (with JZP) and Dead to Rights and was nominated for Ghostbusters and Dark Athena. He has worked on crown jewel franchises including James Bond, Mission: Impossible, Tiny Toons, Batman: Rise of Sin Tsu (Guiness Book of Videogame Records for creating the first Batman villain outside of the comics), Superman, Dungeons & Dragons, Teen Titans and Scooby-Doo.
He has a degree in Ancient History from U.C. Berkeley and an MFA from USC. Currently, Flint is teaching a class on Alternate Reality Games at UCLA. His follow up book to The Ultimate Guide to Video Game Writing and Design is about Transmedia.
About David Marconi:
A native of Highland Park, Ill., Marconi was passionate about film making from an early age. After winning several high-school film making competitions, Marconi was awarded an Alumni Merit Scholarship to attend the University of Southern California's Film School. Upon graduation, landed his first job as Francis Ford Coppola's assistant on The Outsiders.
Working closely with Coppola, Marconi "cut his directing teeth" watching Francis direct both The Outsiders and Rumblefish. In 1993, Marconi wrote and directed his first feature, The Harvest, (Columbia TriStar). The film premiered in the 'official selection' of the San Sebastian Film Festival and went on to win numerous awards in International Film festivals.
The success of The Harvest brought Marconi to the attention of Simpson/Bruckheimer who commissioned Marconi to write his original screenplay Enemy of the State (Disney) starring Will Smith and Gene Hackman. Marconi continued creating tent-pole action films for the major studios; WW3.com (which served as the basis for the Die Hard sequel; Live Free or Die Hard ) (Twentieth Century Fox,) Perfect Suspect for Chris Rock (Twentieth Century Fox,) and the high-tech., science fiction epic; No Man's Land. (Dreamworks.)
Most recently, Marconi was a featured guest speaker for IADC, International Attorney's Defense Council, and the Department of Defense Cyber-Crime Conference where he lectured on his film Enemy of the State and how it relates to privacy concerns and cyber-warfare in a post 9-11 world. 2011 will mark Marconi's second foray behind the lens as a writer/director with his new feature film; INTERSECTION, a gritty thriller currently in pre-production being produced by Luc Besson, the director of THE PROFESSIONAL, FIFTH ELEMENT and Europa Corp. Holding duel citizenship for the US and EU (Italy,) Marconi divides his time between Los Angeles and Europe.
Episode 135 -- Discussing Agent 13 with Flint Dille and David Marconi (July 10, 2013)